Dixon Dern
Professional Representative
About This Interview
Dixon Dern was interviewed for four hours in Los Angeles, CA. Dern talked about his early career working as an in-house attorney for the animation production company United Productions of America, and talked about how his work was affected by the Blacklist. He talked about working in the legal department as an associate counsel at CBS, and discussed his involvement with series including Perry Mason and See It Now (including an incident when his life was threatened). He described in detail his years as the head of the legal department at Desilu, working closely with studio head Desi Arnaz. He described many of the legal issues that arose with the detective series The Untouchables, including a lawsuit filed by the family of Al Capone. Next, he talked about working at United Artists Television, and described the development of the sitcom Gilligan’s Island. He described his later work in private practice, representing clients such as Creative Artists Agency (since its inception) and the Academy of Television Arts and Sciences (including during its split with the National Academy in the mid-1970s). The interview was conducted by Michael Rosen on October 10, 2003.
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Highlights
On what he loves about the legal profession (00m 54s)- On what intellectual property means (01m 37s)
On the key to drafting a contract in the entertainment industry: precision and verbosity (01m 36s)
Dixon Dern on the lawsuit over the Emmy Awards settling by the creation of two separate academys: NATAS in New York and ATAS in Hollywood; the "divorce" of the Emmys into primetime and daytime awards how the Emmy award itself was divvied up in the negotiation between NATAS and ATAS; unusual for a trademark- Dixon Dern on working for the UPA studio during the McCarthyism era and the Hollywood Blacklist; he was asked to submit the names on the list; he calls it "A conspiracy of censorship". Lucille Ball was accused of being a communist. (04m 51s)
Dixon Dern on the legacy of Desi Arnaz and Lucille Ball (02m 07s)
Dixon Dern on Desi Arnaz; as a shrewd negotiator, his personal problems, and how he was the one who really ran Desilu (04m 56s)
Chapters
- Chapter 1
- On his childhood in Colorado, his parents, early education, and hobbies
- On early film "shorts" he enjoyed as a child, enjoying radio in the days before television
- On his love of school, an early interest in political science
- On his father's coffee business; early influences from his teachers
- On the social changes surrounding the "Iron Curtain" and early McCarthyism
- On going to college at Stamford University; majoring in philosophy; his activity in the Democratic Party
- On why he decided to pursue law school
- On starting a family; meeting his first wife (later married to animator Chuck Jones)
- On passing the bar; focusing on entertainment law
- On what intellectual property means
- Chapter 2
- On moving to Los Angeles; his first job as the in-house attorney at UPA; an animation studio to work on an animated series The Gerald McBoing Boing Show
- On one segment of Gerald McBoing! Boing! was an animated vignette (drawn by Jules Engel) based on a Raoul Dufy painting. The company was refused the rights to reproduce the work by Dufy’s widow, so the cartoon was tagged to never be shown in her home country of France.
- On Richard "Dick" Hungate, another lawyer who later worked for RKO; Dern credits with teaching him entertainment law and the art of drafting legal documents.
- On the key to drafting a contract in the entertainment industry
- On his tenure at UPA; learning about entertainment labor law
- On the UPA animated feature short Mr. Magoo;
- On working for the UPA studio during the McCarthyism era and the Hollywood Blacklist; he was asked to submit the names on the list; how this affected actors in television at the time
- On forming the Academy of Animation Arts
- On his memories of his first television set
- On moving to CBS from UPA; he handled network programming and employment contracts; the Mayflower Decision which ruled on whether stations could editorialize
- On the Payola investigation, which involved taking money for product endorsement; it came about after the Quiz show scandals
- On the legal structure at CBS
- Chapter 3
- On the structure at CBS; on show he worked on there, enjoying leaving the legal department in order to work more directly with shows such as Perry Mason and Rawhide
- On working more directly with TV shows and licensing music while at CBS
- On an incident that occured on the set of See It Now; when a thief stole their equipment
- On leaving CBS to work at Desilu as the head of the legal department in 1962;
- On the structure of Desilu studios; putting a deal together on The Untouchables
- On Desi Arnaz; professionally and personally
- Chapter 4
- On Desi Arnaz; his reputation in the industry, his involvement with The Untouchables
- On lawsuits involving Desilu studios including over the Al Capone story
- On Desilu Sales; which was set up to syndicate their own products
- On leaving Desilu to run Business and Legal Affairs at United Artists Television
- On how Gilligan's Island came about; saying it would never sell; difficulties with the series
- On Leaving UA to start his own business
- Chapter 5
- On continuing to represent Desi Arnaz and his familly, even after leaving Desilu
- On Mothers-In-Law, directed by Desi Arnaz, and other projects such as the Mike Douglas Show, Desi's retirement
- On Desi Arnaz's retirement and his continued work for Lucy Arnaz; the intellectual property rights of I Love Lucy and Lucille Ball
- On the legacy of Desi Arnaz and Lucille Ball; the continued merchandising of I Love Lucy.
- On his first law practive in 1967 which became Dern, Mason, & Floum
- On representing Betty White and her show Pet Set.
- On packaging game shows with advertisers; Liar's Club, Celebrity Sweepstakes; working with Allen Ludden and helping to package game shows
- On building a client list for his private practice
- On arbitration for issues with reruns of The Dean Martin Show and the Red Skelton Show; foreign claims in general
- On representing the Jackson Five and eventually recommending each of the Jacksons get separate counsel
- Chapter 6
- On representing the Jackson Five, as well as Michael Jackson; generally on the television show and Joe Jackson's involvement
- On representing the Hardy Boys and Nancy Drew intellectual property rights in a dispute between United Artists and Warner Bros.
- On representing Arnold Shapiro in Scared Straight! a documentary
- On the creation of the Creative Artists Agency (CAA), which was born out of the departure of Michael Ovitz, Ron Meyers, Mike Rosenfeld, Rollin Perkins, and Bill Haber from the William Morris Agency
- On the origin of the National Academy of Television Arts & Sciences and its initial chapters: Hollywood, Chicago, San Francisco, Atlanta and New York; the Emmy Awards
- Chapter 7
- On the growing rift between the chapters of the National Academy of Television Arts & Sciences; the lawsuit that was initiated to claim the rights to the Emmy awards
- On the basis for the lawsuit from the Hollywood chapter and the National Academy over the Emmy voting process, initiated in 1975; attempts at settlement
- On the negotiation between Marvin Burns and Dern in attempt to solve the lawsuit by the creation of two separate academys: NATAS in New York and ATAS in Hollywood; the "divorce" of the Emmys into primetime and daytime awards
- On how the Emmy award itself was divvied up in the negotiation between NATAS and ATAS; unusual for a trademark
- On the membership of the Television Academys; the broadcast rights to the Emmy awards
- Chapter 8
- On the "Network Wheel" method of scheduling the Emmy telecast; the competitive bidding over the rights to the telecast
- On the effect of strikes on the Emmy telecast; the 2002 renegotiation process for the Emmy telecast license fee
- On the status of the ongoing litigation between NATAS and ATAS (at the time of this interview in 2003)
- On the mission statement of the Academy of Television Arts & Sciences; the education initiative of the Academy
- On representing Judge Joseph Wapner in the 1980s; on how the People's Court show was initiated
- On working with Phil Roman Productions; other animation clients such as Chuck Jones
- On representing Bob Hope
- On his love of the legal profession
- On being called "the godfather of entertainment law"
- On his greatest professional and personal achievments
- Chapter 9
- On what has transpired since his last interview (in 2003) and now: at the time he had been in the middle of litigation between NATAS and ATAS
- On the division between the National Academy and the Hollywood Academy of Television Arts and Sciences: the various points related to that litigation: on John Cannon's involvement and his replacement, Peter Price at NATAS; a new dispute arose over a Spanish-language Emmys
- On the beginning of a new arbitration over a Spanish-language Emmys; Dick Askin and Dwight Swanson as the heads of the respective Academys who held a series of talks
- On talks to possibly re-merge the two Television Academys which never was agreed upon
- On the continuing arbitration process between ATAS and NATAS; coming close to a settlement; bringing IATAS to the West Coast (ATAS); the attempt to bring the L.A Chapter to NATAS which was voted down
- On the International Academy of Television of Arts and Sciences
- On the advent of the interactive committee at the Academy; the next round of arbitration to enjoin NATAS from giving out any broadband awards pertaining to the primetime Emmys
- On NATAS bringing up doing a Spanish/ Latin Emmys for a second time
- On NATAS' appeal
- On attempts to settle the arbitration case; the agreement to drop the appeals
- Chapter 10
- On the history of syndication; his representation of both buyers and sellers; setting up Desilu sales
- On changes within the Television Academy; the advent of broadband
- On the problem of the "window" between entertainment mediums (ipod versus video sales); on piracy; on the video-on-demand paradigm
- On working with guilds and unions; on setting up the clip licensing procedure for the Emmys at the Academy
- On copyright issues; the broadening of "fair use" in the digital domain; on Lawrence Lessig (Creative Commons/ Electronic Frontier); on the Harry Potter case; the Digital Millenium Copyright Act
- On protecting the actual Emmy statuette from illegal sales on ebay
- On advice to someone starting in the legal profession today; the importance of mentors; on continuing to enjoy work
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